Saturday, September 30, 2006

My Apologies

I was acosted (okay, maybe that's a bit strong), but maybe "chided" works her, by a long-time reader of this blog that I've been a little weak in the postings catagory of the last month or two. To which I responded "true." Here's my reasons/excuses: 1. I really have been busy. -- Okay so I have to say this...I get tired of when you ask people how they are and they always say "busy" as if that really describes how you are -- that's just circumstances -- it doesn't necessarily tell me how you are. So now I will qualify: I've been busy, meaning -- my life is full, but in a good & healthy way. When I'm at work, I have enough to do, that it's more than filling my time, and when I'm at home, I've resurrected some projects that have been neglected for quite some time. 2. The stuff that's really been on my mind, isn't really fit to print at this juncture. I don't want to be too cryptic...but here's a couple things that I hope to blog about in the future, that I've been thinking about recently but am not ready to "play my hand" yet.
  • Consumerism -- especially related to "church shopping," and "church hopping" (two terms I LOATHE) and the tendency of clergy to denounce consumeristic tendencies in parishioners and then switch churches every couple of years.
  • The challenges of "twentysomethings" ministry -- the people who have the most to give (time, $, etc., and yet statistically do the least in the church and are the least dedicated.)
  • The viability of the "church-within-a-church" model -- is it sustainable? Is it even desirable? Is it biblical?
  • The christian "ghetto" -- how many church services/small groups/etc. should I be going to each week? How much of my time should be filled up with "church stuff" as compared to the time I have available to hang out with neighbors and get involved in my community?

That's all for now...if there's something that really piques your interest, let me know. I'm hoping that Catalyst will give me some time to think about some of these things!


david rudd said...

i wonder if there are any connections between your first three bullet points?

i'm particularly interested in your thoughts on the church in a church... what significance do recent events at willow have for this model if any?

Anonymous said...

Hey I read...

"Consumerism -- especially related to "church shopping," and "church hopping" (two terms I LOATHE) and the tendency of clergy to denounce consumeristic tendencies in parishioners and then switch churches every couple of years."

Here is the thing.... what causes people to shop? Marketing right? So why are we in the Western Church so focused on it. Sure Paul said to the Jew I became a Jew, in essence meeting people where they are at. But he did not put together some fancy light show to attract people.

Think about all we do. Church marketing, we try to get it as close as we can at times to what is trendy on in the world.

By doing this, dont we encourage Church being some product that we are selling? It's kinda sad but at times true. It may not be our heart, we may have good intentions. But lets face it, we try to sell church too often.

You know what Acts says in chapter 2 when the early church exploded in numbers... the wind wind blew.

It was not a bake sale, or semi-broadway production. It was the Holy Spirit... growth is great, behind every number is a person. But how much do we try to be marketable verse praying and seeking God. What would the time difference be?

I know it does not look good for me. But it is reallity. I think people church shop for one of two reasons. 1-self centered, or 2 its not what they need (or feel they need).

Jesus, drew 1,000s just by preatching the old test. now we try to put it in every day language and not even refer to a scripture.

We are idiots, to think we can communicate God's messages by putting them in our words and being general.

I don't know, I may be boiling over....

What do you think?

ckd said...

Dave, as usual your short comments are insightful and wise.

I think that there are HUGE connections betwen the three.

(honestly, the Willow think has sent ripples)

I'm choosing not to respond, yet. I think you represent one side of the issue, but I think it's much more complex that blaming churches for marketing. I'll come back to this, but later...I don't want to just react -- I want to think over this issue and probably discuss it with people I respect and then maybe even do some research before I respond.

Anonymous said...


Thanks for giving my comments some thought, I appriciate it and appricate you. I look forward to what you have to say.

Anonymous said...


Did you by chance respond to these comments yet, (I was unable to find anything), if you did could you tell me the date and name of the entry?


ckd said...

not yet...sorry...I've been pretty busy -- I need to set aside some time -- and actually I'm a little afraid that they could turn into mega-posts!!

wanna go to lunch?

Anonymous said...


Thanks for your offer on lunch. However I actually do not live in central Illinois. I came across your blog via a friend of a friends blog. I do have ties to Peoria. Its not a huge deal that we settle on this or talk about this. Its a sticky issue that has a lot of meat that could be tied to it. Bottom line I think we both would agree the purpose of the chuch is to point people to the Church. Where we may have difficulty is the matter how we point them to the Church from the church. Church being the Body of Christ, as you know. I realize you probably think about this stuff more that I or most do, but being a fan of marketing, churches and the Church there are my own views on the topic as it relates to the interpitation of scripture and aplication to what you wrote, "Consumerism -- especially related to "church shopping," and "church hopping" (two terms I LOATHE) and the tendency of clergy to denounce consumeristic tendencies in parishioners and then switch churches every couple of years."

And yes, I think we are both very capable of mega post going back and forth for more thought and clarification and hopfully we, as well as others, would have open hearts to the disscuion... but at the same time we realistically agree on the basic... the church pointing to the Church.... I would enjoy going into more depth with you on the topic of implimenting church to Chuch, because I enjoy thinking deaper and differently when those discussions occur, in fact I am appricitaive of your orginal post and the cogs in my head that begin turn when I read it, it is good to think about this stuff from time to time....

but if it does not happen no big deal

Anyways.... blessings to you and I look forward to reading you blogs down the road....

If you should decide to post, if you could let me know on this original post so I can look for it every once in awhile.

blessings to you my friend